> based on some off-hand comments I suspect we’re also going to see other optimizations such as a narrower memory bus.
In a VR-specific SoC? That's nuts!
Also, I don't get why they'd eliminate the modem. Seems to me like the end goal is for smart glasses to be used *instead* of a phone. If you need to have both on you - and charged - that's just going to suck. Not to mention all the dropped phones during energetic AR gaming sessions.
"Also, I don't get why they'd eliminate the modem." Because it's not needed for a VR headset, and it adds quite a bit of cost in terms of the actual die area, the radio RF frontend, and then all the licensing fees (which admittedly go back to Qualcomm).
QC's customers were looking for a cheaper SoC to make more Oculus Go-type devices. Which means they need to be able to put together a complete headset for under $200. XR1 allows Qualcomm to not only make a cheaper SoC, but to sell it relatively cheaply while maintaining the price premium for their smartphone SoCs and associated cellular royalties.
Network connectivity is going to be essential, for both AR and most VR experiences. Since there won't always be open wi-fi, you're either going to need the modem or a smart phone on your person.
Mark my words: we'll see the return of the modem as an essential ingredient in AR (and probably VR) SoCs. I get why they took it out, but that's not going to last. Once AR glasses become competent substitutes for a smartphone, the modem will be back.
There's just not a lot else they could remove, since VR/AR is one of the more demanding applications out there.
4G adds cost, power, heat, a huge amount of mechanical volume and you don't need LTE for VR, VR is indoors only. Not that you could afford it, what are you gonna do, stream Netflix in 4k over LTE? The experience is not connectivity focused either.
With AR you need connectivity but if it's a slim pair of glasses (not indoor only like hololens) but LTE does not fit well at all for now and folks wouldn't pay for a data plan if functionality is limited. If you have 200$ glasses for driving or cycling, you are not gonna pay for a damn data plan. 5-10 years from now is another matter but not quite sure 5G is fit for it. The front end and antennas for mmWave are a nightmare.
As said, premium headsets will continue to use premium mobile SoCs, with all the bells and whistles. I suspect XR1 powered devices will be for confined spaces use cases (think home, commercial spaces - stores, malls, whatever) with WiFi.
Short term yes if you define glasses as they are today but medium term and beyond, a 5W phone SoC is not fit for the form factor at all. We need glasses that look like a normal pair of sports glasses or better. So any glasses that can achieve very high volumes will have to use much more efficient SoCs and focus more on accelerators. This is a much bigger jump than from desktop to phones.
Funny you should say that, since one of Google's first ads for the Daydream standalone HMD shows a girl using it in what appears to be her back yard.
I think parking lots and other open spaces will be popular venues for multi-user VR games. Although those would obviously use 6-DoF and therefore possibly use the higher-end Snapdragon 845.
AR glasses likely won't replace smartphones to any significant degree, as they're not nearly as well suited for the most prevalent uses of smartphones: web browsing, social media, and similar apps. Eye tracking, hand tracking or other gestures will never match the speed and accuracy of touch, and while having a display projected "in front of" your eyes is really neat, it's also quite inflexible and impractical in a lot of situations. AR glasses might act as a supplement or add-on to a smartphone, but the cost of a second device would make that a niche concept.
AR definitely has its place in the future, but it's not a prospective smartphone replacement. The use cases are simply too different.
Leaving server for this? I'm gonna call this out as a huge mistake on their part driven by the idiotic short term shareholder view. VR isn't going to take off, AR maybe but still decades out.
Some market analyst predicted 186 M shipments by 5 years. Given a credible prediction, they're obligated to chase it.
Especially when you consider that many of these will replace smartphone shipments. So, they're worried about their existing market being replaced by AR. That's why they're committed to pursuing it.
AR has far more use cases than any other computer. If you had 3D tracking that can match a tablet's keyboard... you could start from there. Ofc AR/MR glasses would do VR too so not much of a need for VR only devices.
VR only has minimal relevance for the next decade or few decades. It becomes huge once it feels fully real so you likely need a brain-computer interface to make VR relevant.
And whos smart idea was to make cpu even slower than 845 to use in VR devices... Even 845 is too slow to VR. Spesific vr soc that would be faster than 845... why not! But this...
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mode_13h - Tuesday, May 29, 2018 - link
> based on some off-hand comments I suspect we’re also going to see other optimizations such as a narrower memory bus.In a VR-specific SoC? That's nuts!
Also, I don't get why they'd eliminate the modem. Seems to me like the end goal is for smart glasses to be used *instead* of a phone. If you need to have both on you - and charged - that's just going to suck. Not to mention all the dropped phones during energetic AR gaming sessions.
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
"Also, I don't get why they'd eliminate the modem." Because it's not needed for a VR headset, and it adds quite a bit of cost in terms of the actual die area, the radio RF frontend, and then all the licensing fees (which admittedly go back to Qualcomm).QC's customers were looking for a cheaper SoC to make more Oculus Go-type devices. Which means they need to be able to put together a complete headset for under $200. XR1 allows Qualcomm to not only make a cheaper SoC, but to sell it relatively cheaply while maintaining the price premium for their smartphone SoCs and associated cellular royalties.
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Network connectivity is going to be essential, for both AR and most VR experiences. Since there won't always be open wi-fi, you're either going to need the modem or a smart phone on your person.Mark my words: we'll see the return of the modem as an essential ingredient in AR (and probably VR) SoCs. I get why they took it out, but that's not going to last. Once AR glasses become competent substitutes for a smartphone, the modem will be back.
There's just not a lot else they could remove, since VR/AR is one of the more demanding applications out there.
jjj - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
4G adds cost, power, heat, a huge amount of mechanical volume and you don't need LTE for VR, VR is indoors only. Not that you could afford it, what are you gonna do, stream Netflix in 4k over LTE? The experience is not connectivity focused either.With AR you need connectivity but if it's a slim pair of glasses (not indoor only like hololens) but LTE does not fit well at all for now and folks wouldn't pay for a data plan if functionality is limited. If you have 200$ glasses for driving or cycling, you are not gonna pay for a damn data plan.
5-10 years from now is another matter but not quite sure 5G is fit for it. The front end and antennas for mmWave are a nightmare.
LiviuTM - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
As said, premium headsets will continue to use premium mobile SoCs, with all the bells and whistles. I suspect XR1 powered devices will be for confined spaces use cases (think home, commercial spaces - stores, malls, whatever) with WiFi.jjj - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Short term yes if you define glasses as they are today but medium term and beyond, a 5W phone SoC is not fit for the form factor at all.We need glasses that look like a normal pair of sports glasses or better.
So any glasses that can achieve very high volumes will have to use much more efficient SoCs and focus more on accelerators.
This is a much bigger jump than from desktop to phones.
mode_13h - Thursday, May 31, 2018 - link
> VR is indoors onlyFunny you should say that, since one of Google's first ads for the Daydream standalone HMD shows a girl using it in what appears to be her back yard.
I think parking lots and other open spaces will be popular venues for multi-user VR games. Although those would obviously use 6-DoF and therefore possibly use the higher-end Snapdragon 845.
Valantar - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
AR glasses likely won't replace smartphones to any significant degree, as they're not nearly as well suited for the most prevalent uses of smartphones: web browsing, social media, and similar apps. Eye tracking, hand tracking or other gestures will never match the speed and accuracy of touch, and while having a display projected "in front of" your eyes is really neat, it's also quite inflexible and impractical in a lot of situations. AR glasses might act as a supplement or add-on to a smartphone, but the cost of a second device would make that a niche concept.AR definitely has its place in the future, but it's not a prospective smartphone replacement. The use cases are simply too different.
mode_13h - Thursday, May 31, 2018 - link
I'm sure AR users of the future will wonder why we ever put up with browsing the web on those tiny phone screens.beginner99 - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Leaving server for this? I'm gonna call this out as a huge mistake on their part driven by the idiotic short term shareholder view. VR isn't going to take off, AR maybe but still decades out.mode_13h - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Some market analyst predicted 186 M shipments by 5 years. Given a credible prediction, they're obligated to chase it.Especially when you consider that many of these will replace smartphone shipments. So, they're worried about their existing market being replaced by AR. That's why they're committed to pursuing it.
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Also, I've not seen any evidence this was *instead* of server. They've clearly been pursuing XR concurrently with their work on Centriq.Threska - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
You might see AR being used productively sooner.https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/29/hololens-acts-as...
mode_13h - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Nice!jjj - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
AR has far more use cases than any other computer. If you had 3D tracking that can match a tablet's keyboard... you could start from there. Ofc AR/MR glasses would do VR too so not much of a need for VR only devices.VR only has minimal relevance for the next decade or few decades. It becomes huge once it feels fully real so you likely need a brain-computer interface to make VR relevant.
jjj - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Would be interesting if they use InFO_PoP for DRAM and really hope the CPU cores are A55 or less.haukionkannel - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
And whos smart idea was to make cpu even slower than 845 to use in VR devices...Even 845 is too slow to VR. Spesific vr soc that would be faster than 845... why not! But this...
snarfbot - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Maybe yields on snapdragon 845's aren't so good and they have tons of bad dies with non functional modems.name99 - Wednesday, May 30, 2018 - link
Well I'm sure QC will serve this market every bit as well as they served the Android Wear market...