This being mostly for Chinese market, is that 10,000 mAh based on Chinese spec or International? Replacement battery sold in China usually only has effective charge comparable to 40-50% of what its says on the box because manufacturers put peak current on the label. So the current model is comparable to ~3000mAh and the extra large is ~5000mAh, which seems more logical given the price and photo.
Ah is not energy (in fact, it's a fairly useless/meaningless metric), unless voltage is included into the calculation (AVh, a.k.a. Wh, would be energy and has units of J.)
Except when it's not. A quick example is how OnePlus increased the battery from 3000mAh on the OnePlus 3 to 3400mAh on the 3T (13% increase) by increasing the voltage from 4.35V to 4.4V.
I find Wh to be a much more useful metric if you're into comparing.
"Except when it's not. A quick example is how OnePlus increased the battery from 3000mAh on the OnePlus 3 to 3400mAh on the 3T (13% increase) by increasing the voltage from 4.35V to 4.4V." That's not how that works. They can increase the stored energy by increasing the nominal voltage of the cells. But the amperage value is not affected by the voltage value. They increased the Wh rating when upping the voltage (and amperage), they didn't increase the mAh rating by increasing the voltage.
Well think about it in this way, it's a representation of how many amps you can feed the device in one hour over a certain operating voltage, which does make since.
As for the voltage increase, I don't know how can they raise it, shouldn't all devices run on a fixed voltage? I assumed that SOCs and all the other components have a certain operating voltage and not different in each device.
@masaad88: The mAh rating does not correspond to the correspond to the ability to discharge that current in one hour. That is what the "C" rating is for. Though it is right that you can do some basic math with the mAh rating and figure out how long your device will last on that battery if you have the power draw of your device and the battery capacity in mAh available, as long as no power conversion happens. This works well for phones or small electronics like micro controllers, raspberry pis etc. Once you get to bigger electronics (PCs, Laptops) with highly variable voltages, going with Wh is the more practical way to do it. My laptop uses 8W of power, my battery has 11.1V @ 7.2Ah, which means it can be powered by battery for approx. 10 hours. Good luck trying to easily measure the amperage for each voltage and do the conversion. :)
As for the one hour thing: normal NiMH AA / AAA rechargeable batteries have a C rating of .1 or .2, meaning a standard 1900mAh AA battery can be discharged at 190 mA to 380 mA. Good LiPo packs for RC usage have 10, 30, 60C, which means their rated capacity (2000mAh, 5000mAh .... ) can be multiplied by that C number and you have the max amperage they can provide in short bursts. A high C rating usually goes hand in hand with few recharge cycles and of course, rapid depletion. If a 5000mAh battery pack puts out 50A (10C), it can only last for roughly 6 minutes, give or take.
There are a lot of different battery tachnologies being deployed under the "Lithium Ion" label. Normal 18650 cells have Li2FePO4F chemistry, which translates to 3.6V average. There are other technologies which have higher or lower average voltages. And of course these are averages. A fully charged Li-Ion/LiPo battery can have 4.1V, 4.2V, 4.3V and it can be discharged to 3.3V, 3.0V or 2.8V, depending on the chemistry and build of the battery and if you value longevity of the cell or want the highest capacity for a few cycles. The components inside the devices have fixed voltages, just like your motherboard wants 3.3V, 5V and 12V. But the Intel CPU wants 1.8V from the motherboard and then the die itself wants 1.2V. All those subsequent voltages get converted from the first 3 provided by the PSU. Same thing with modern devices, the SoC wants 1.xV, the display wants 3.3V or 5.0V etc. But they all get derived from the battery voltage, which is usually between 3.xV and 4.xV, the range depends on the chemistry and build of the cell, the desired longevity and the desired battery life claims. Some components can also run on a range of voltages, a lot of portable displays claim to run on 12V only, but can run on 7.4V 2S battery packs as well, or on 19V laptop chargers. It's not that cut and dry.
Near Native speed for UWP apps in the Windows Store is worthless to me
This phone might be useful if we could get Virtualbox as a UWP app to get around the side loading BAN Microsoft has imposed on the Snapdragon Version of Windows 10
8GB > check Windows 10 > check Can't run jack shit > check
I really hope they make an "International Version" where it is unlocked and all regional frequencies are available. A lot more people are travelling these days and it seems silly to limit phones to certain regions. Since the hardware supports it, why not unlock all those LTE bands and 4G frequencies on the phone and let the consumer decide where they want to use it. I want to be able to use the local SIM cards that I buy when I'm travelling and have the same frequencies (frequencies = coverage and speeds) as everyone else.
I bet they have to pay mega royalties for those LTE bands to Qualcomm, if they are activated. That's the only reason I can figure. I've heard those royalties are insane. As in the most expensive cost in the device, more expensive than the SOC itself.
Ruggedized phone with top of the line specs has me interested. No need for a case. Just a glass screen protector. 10000mAh battery makes it even more tempting. Less charging. Could use as a GPS on my bike without needing a weatherproof case and still have battery left over. The kicker is the FHD screen instead of a life sucking/useless retina super optimus ultra high 8k double megatron HD screen that does me zero good. As a bonus, @ 10000mAh, if its enough to jump start a bike. I'll throw my money at them.
OMG... double camera in a rugged, dude xD AMG to me is becaming more and more appealing (does promises strength and performance as a "regular competitive smartphone" ... to launch the first rugged dual camera and resistance to everything)
well; dont surprise me anymore : now that Samsung is not longer the best PPR (good value for your money), now IS best to get shipped some chinese like this ... o bought my AGM and ... so incredibly happy :O!
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Qwertilot - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
10,000 mAh battery? Wow.MajGenRelativity - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
I know right? If the price isn't insane, I may buy that just for the battery alone.wr3zzz - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
This being mostly for Chinese market, is that 10,000 mAh based on Chinese spec or International? Replacement battery sold in China usually only has effective charge comparable to 40-50% of what its says on the box because manufacturers put peak current on the label. So the current model is comparable to ~3000mAh and the extra large is ~5000mAh, which seems more logical given the price and photo.Azune - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Ah is energy, not current.boeush - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Ah is not energy (in fact, it's a fairly useless/meaningless metric), unless voltage is included into the calculation (AVh, a.k.a. Wh, would be energy and has units of J.)masaad88 - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
It takes into account the voltage, but since the nominal operating voltage of all cellphone batteries is fixed it is dropped.close - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Except when it's not. A quick example is how OnePlus increased the battery from 3000mAh on the OnePlus 3 to 3400mAh on the 3T (13% increase) by increasing the voltage from 4.35V to 4.4V.I find Wh to be a much more useful metric if you're into comparing.
Flunk - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
You're totally right, Amps is a ridiculous way to measure energy storage because it doesn't mean anything unless they also give you the voltage.piroroadkill - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Yup, it really needs to stop as a practice. Watt-hours would be better.Death666Angel - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
"Except when it's not. A quick example is how OnePlus increased the battery from 3000mAh on the OnePlus 3 to 3400mAh on the 3T (13% increase) by increasing the voltage from 4.35V to 4.4V."That's not how that works. They can increase the stored energy by increasing the nominal voltage of the cells. But the amperage value is not affected by the voltage value. They increased the Wh rating when upping the voltage (and amperage), they didn't increase the mAh rating by increasing the voltage.
masaad88 - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Well think about it in this way, it's a representation of how many amps you can feed the device in one hour over a certain operating voltage, which does make since.As for the voltage increase, I don't know how can they raise it, shouldn't all devices run on a fixed voltage? I assumed that SOCs and all the other components have a certain operating voltage and not different in each device.
Can anybody confirm?
Death666Angel - Wednesday, March 15, 2017 - link
@masaad88: The mAh rating does not correspond to the correspond to the ability to discharge that current in one hour. That is what the "C" rating is for. Though it is right that you can do some basic math with the mAh rating and figure out how long your device will last on that battery if you have the power draw of your device and the battery capacity in mAh available, as long as no power conversion happens. This works well for phones or small electronics like micro controllers, raspberry pis etc. Once you get to bigger electronics (PCs, Laptops) with highly variable voltages, going with Wh is the more practical way to do it. My laptop uses 8W of power, my battery has 11.1V @ 7.2Ah, which means it can be powered by battery for approx. 10 hours. Good luck trying to easily measure the amperage for each voltage and do the conversion. :)As for the one hour thing: normal NiMH AA / AAA rechargeable batteries have a C rating of .1 or .2, meaning a standard 1900mAh AA battery can be discharged at 190 mA to 380 mA. Good LiPo packs for RC usage have 10, 30, 60C, which means their rated capacity (2000mAh, 5000mAh .... ) can be multiplied by that C number and you have the max amperage they can provide in short bursts. A high C rating usually goes hand in hand with few recharge cycles and of course, rapid depletion. If a 5000mAh battery pack puts out 50A (10C), it can only last for roughly 6 minutes, give or take.
There are a lot of different battery tachnologies being deployed under the "Lithium Ion" label. Normal 18650 cells have Li2FePO4F chemistry, which translates to 3.6V average. There are other technologies which have higher or lower average voltages. And of course these are averages. A fully charged Li-Ion/LiPo battery can have 4.1V, 4.2V, 4.3V and it can be discharged to 3.3V, 3.0V or 2.8V, depending on the chemistry and build of the battery and if you value longevity of the cell or want the highest capacity for a few cycles.
The components inside the devices have fixed voltages, just like your motherboard wants 3.3V, 5V and 12V. But the Intel CPU wants 1.8V from the motherboard and then the die itself wants 1.2V. All those subsequent voltages get converted from the first 3 provided by the PSU. Same thing with modern devices, the SoC wants 1.xV, the display wants 3.3V or 5.0V etc. But they all get derived from the battery voltage, which is usually between 3.xV and 4.xV, the range depends on the chemistry and build of the cell, the desired longevity and the desired battery life claims. Some components can also run on a range of voltages, a lot of portable displays claim to run on 12V only, but can run on 7.4V 2S battery packs as well, or on 19V laptop chargers. It's not that cut and dry.
vladx - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
For <$500 this phone is definitely worth it.bigboxes - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
But it be for significantly >$500. The X-1 is $480 USD. This will be on another level.RaistlinZ - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
Which carriers in the U.S. will this phone work with?lazarpandar - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
That phone is simply going to be too big. If they could fit all that stuff and still a ~4000mAh into a 4.5in screened phone I'd be all over it.piroroadkill - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Dream on. The days of reasonably sized devices are behind us.Bullwinkle J Moose - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
Near Native speed for UWP apps in the Windows Store is worthless to meThis phone might be useful if we could get Virtualbox as a UWP app to get around the side loading BAN Microsoft has imposed on the Snapdragon Version of Windows 10
8GB > check
Windows 10 > check
Can't run jack shit > check
Bullwinkle J Moose - Monday, March 13, 2017 - link
clarification>this particular phone may not run Windows 10, but the snapdragon 835 is Windows ready!
Murloc - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
take your meds bullyBullwinkle J Moose - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Don't Tase me bruh....SpatulaCity - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
I really hope they make an "International Version" where it is unlocked and all regional frequencies are available. A lot more people are travelling these days and it seems silly to limit phones to certain regions. Since the hardware supports it, why not unlock all those LTE bands and 4G frequencies on the phone and let the consumer decide where they want to use it. I want to be able to use the local SIM cards that I buy when I'm travelling and have the same frequencies (frequencies = coverage and speeds) as everyone else.andychow - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
I bet they have to pay mega royalties for those LTE bands to Qualcomm, if they are activated. That's the only reason I can figure. I've heard those royalties are insane. As in the most expensive cost in the device, more expensive than the SOC itself.Manch - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Ruggedized phone with top of the line specs has me interested. No need for a case. Just a glass screen protector. 10000mAh battery makes it even more tempting. Less charging. Could use as a GPS on my bike without needing a weatherproof case and still have battery left over. The kicker is the FHD screen instead of a life sucking/useless retina super optimus ultra high 8k double megatron HD screen that does me zero good. As a bonus, @ 10000mAh, if its enough to jump start a bike. I'll throw my money at them.soliloquist - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
Double megatron sounds like a starscream nightmare.Manch - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
^^^yes!!!Sragarra - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - link
OMG... double camera in a rugged, dude xD AMG to me is becaming more and more appealing (does promises strength and performance as a "regular competitive smartphone" ... to launch the first rugged dual camera and resistance to everything)solesolesalva - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
I have read some things about the agm $9.9 offer too ! promotion.agmmobile.com/AGM-flash-sale/?route=enSragarra - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
well; dont surprise me anymore : now that Samsung is not longer the best PPR (good value for your money), now IS best to get shipped some chinese like this ... o bought my AGM and ... so incredibly happy :O!