This pretty much says it all. Who even uses optical discs for anything? I wasn't aware there was even a market that'd make it worth the effort to develop technologies for such a paleolithic storage medium.
Not many people bother storing movies locally unless they're providing those movies as a streaming service. There are a few outliers, but those people are doing things in a niche manner. Movies themselves are a waning form of passive entertainment with little future left. There are some older folks that are hanigng onto that and television, but in general terms video, even streamed, is in the early stages of its death.
Uh, right. I'm sure video entertainment is on its way to a quick demise, right after books.
More seriously, what (legal) software is even available to play Blu-Rays on a PC? I fully expect to see a UHD BD decrypter before long (if one doesn't already exist), but my impression was that Blu-Ray was such a mess that few if any legal programs properly support playback.
Cyberlink's PowerDVD suite (mentioned in the article) has supported Blu-ray playback with Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD audio for years now, and so have their competitors (WinDVD? I can't remember their names, but similar products to PowerDVD. I think ArcSoft makes one).
Funny you should say that, there was an article just yesterday about the demise of Hollywood. In the last 10 years their profits have been reduced by roughly 80%. Sony just took a 1 BILLION $ write-down on their movie productions. Several production companies just got sold to the Chinese. So yeah, the movie/video entertainment industry IS dying. How many bookstores are near your house? We have one in a city of 3 million people, and it's in the hippy district where die-hards still spin vinyl. The entertainment industry is following the music and book industry right down the toilet.
I've got a NAS in the basement for movies. But I'm not terribly concerned about absolute pixel-perfect quality, so I'm alright with h.264 compression. Biggest movie I have is maybe 10GB. Vast majority are below half that. Whatever compression artifacts there are, I'm not going to be able to see from across the living room. My 2TB drive has been enough storage space for a few years now, and is only now just beginning to approach full. Upgrade to a 4TB and I'll be fine for another several years. Really not unreasonable at all.
If HD DVD had won the format wars we probably wouldn't be looking at such a convoluted DRM system for "UHD DVD". With that being said, if you're a videophile who cares about UHD BD, you're already watching them on a UHD BD player (standalone unit or XB1S). I doubt there's going to be much demand for UHD BD on PCs.
Agreed. I was considering getting a UHD BD drive for my next PC build just to have - not anymore. I mean heck even if I carefully pick components that are all compliant, the price of the drive alone is enough to make me balk.
I have a dvd burner in my main rig, the only use its got is a few dvd's I purchased of some content thats in dvd format only, and that is it, probably used it 2 or 3 times ot play such content in the past 2 years. I definitely never burn anything anymore. My laptop also has one integrated. If my dvd burner died I wouldnt replace it as I have the laptop, not to mention my ps3, ps4 and xbox260 zll have optical playback devices, however if I really had to get a new optical unit I would probably just buy a cheap external usb unit for situational use.
Now days usb sticks have took over the role for things like OS installation and portable storage, and if I find I run out of hdd space to store stuff, I tend to just upgrade my hdd space.
"at the time of writing there are no software packages that support playback of Ultra HD Blu-ray discs"
and here is why > to actually playback an Ultra HD Blu-ray disc, users will need:
A PC that supports AACS 2.0 and Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX) An appropriate optical disk drive, Software that handles UHD BD playback, Windows 10, A GPU that has an HDMI 2.0a output with HDCP 2.2 (and AACS2 supported by its driver, which eliminates current-gen standalone GPUs) and, A 4K TV/display that has an HDMI 2.0a input with HDCP 2.2. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ OR, I can Burn NON-DRM 4K Videos to a NON DRM Nightmare RIGHT NOW and do it in Windows XP/7/8 or 10!
Great Job Guys....
I'd rather buy a mini Blu-Ray Burner as a floppy disk replacement
I could store an Acronis bootable backup of every OS listed above with room to spare for mandatory software in a single triple layer disk and never worry about malware encrypting my Read Only backups but Oooooh, thats right, they cancelled all their mini-disk production
B.T.W. BD-RE is equivalent to DVD+R for anyone interested in making backups to a bootable rewritable disk and work fine even in Windows XP
"i don´t get what you are saying" ------------------------------------------ Just saying I'd rather have a high density 80cm "mini disk" reader/writer
There are still valid reasons for Read Only Media without DRM hoops to jump through for disks I will never buy
I'd rather put critical backups on an Optical Disk rated to last 1000 years like an M-Disk or rewritable boot disk instead of copying them to an SSD or hard drive that is about to get hit by a malware attack
....and who the He^^ puts critical backups in the Clouds anyway?
Ah... M-Disc, the media that's barely been on the market for ~6-7 years, claims to last 1000 years but everything that would validate the claim is a trade secret so best you can do is put your data on one and wait. Meanwhile plenty of independent testing showed that under not so ordinary conditions (probably unnaturally hot/humid conditions) they are no more resilient than DVDs. Also only a handful of units can burn M-Disc and 4.7GB blanks are more expensive (by a good margin) than 25GB BD-R blanks. But they last 1 (one) gazillion years, scout's honor.
What if the malware gets written on the M-Disc, what do you do then? That's 1000 years of malware that you can't get rid of.
"What if the malware gets written on the M-Disc, what do you do then? That's 1000 years of malware that you can't get rid of." -------------------------------------------- Well, I've broken hundreds of malware infected CD's and DVD's in my lifetime, let's see if I can break a malware infected Blu-Ray disk
Yup, not a problem!
Antiviruses are the first thing disabled by malware in your operating system
You might want to try storing clean antivirus rescue disks on...........Read Only DVD!
I recheck older optical disks every few years for malware when the antivirus signatures had a chance to catch up, and break the bad optical disks after saving the crap I want to keep on a freshly wiped hard drive
I use a READ ONLY operating system to save the NON-infected data and rescan the hard drive after a reboot to clean temporary infections from the READ ONLY operating system
THEN, I burn a new disk without the malware being saved for 1000 years
A Read Only installation of Windows XP is the OS I use when cleaning infected optical disks..... Driveshield works great for making it READ ONLY!
What do YOU use, and how do YOU prevent rootkits that disable your antivirus first withoout your knowledge and that you will never find unless you scan your boot drive with a READ ONLY rescue disk?
Microsoft is not allowed to use DRM on MY systems unless I can force them to use MY DRM on their systems!
Forcing Weaponized spyware and malware onto all modern Windows systems and calling it DRM is the problem, not the solution
If security experts are not allowed to remove DRM malware that opens backdoors for every hacker on the planet, then how can you ever secure your system?
They have made it a crime for you to secure your own system and close the backdoors yet they tell you that YOU cannot do the same thing to THEM to prevent the theft of YOUR data
When it becomes a crime to stop the criminals, something is VERY wrong
No, antiviruses are the first thing disabled by malware on YOUR operating system (you're on XP SP2, right?). I haven't had malware on any of my systems in well over 15 years. Unless it's of the NSA variety :).
And if you can just break the 1000 year media don't you... lose data? You know you don't break just the malware bits don't you? What do you do when you discover your 1 year old data is malware ridden, go back in time before the infection and rewrite it on a disk? Being stuck with malware for 1000 years or having to personally kill your data, that can keep you up at night.
Come on, if you can't protect your data on a backup HDD you won't on an M-Disc either. You'll lose data just the same. Also you'll lose money since you pay for a 4.7GB M-Disc 50% more than on a 25GB BD-R (~60-80c/GB judging by today's market prices).
I once was like you. I used to tell the proctologist that he can't finger my butthole unless I can finger his. I called it enslavement, I called him a criminal, all it got me was a stint in the loony bin with a guy who was dressing as a toy elk or something... Oh wait... ;)
"if you can just break the 1000 year media don't you... lose data?" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, I lose malware!
Any data I want to keep is malware-free and burned to a new disk before the old one is broken
I don't use M-Disks for general crap that might contain malware I break the cheap stuff, and I have never used a 4.7GB M-disks
I'm not worried about my antivirus being disable on a Read Only Operating System either If I let it connect to the Internet or pick one that takes over the firewall, then I might worry, but I'm not finding any malware that can wreck my XP install
The only malware I've had doing damage in the past year was on a fully updated, fresh install of Windows 8.1 even though I only research and look for malware with XP, not 8.1
So those man in the middle attacks and network screengrabs in 8.1 must have been of the NSA variety huh?
So you break the disk, kill the malware, and keep the data? Oh wait, that was the backup of your 1-2-5-7 year old data that you just discovered has malware and nothing can clean it. Too bad for your data. Now it's gone along with the malware and you have no other backup. And since you had that malware 1-2-5-7 years ago it's safe to assume everything on your computer and every backup since then is infected. You not only lost all your backups but all the current data in your computer. Damn man, you're a real menace :).
If you ever want to learn how to properly back up data without using media designed for gullible, uneducated consumers willing to spend more without an actual benefit let me know. I'll teach you some tricks that will blow your... um... mind.
Dunno what you mean about screengrabs in 8.1. Do you have a dude behind you taking pics of the stuff on your screen or what?
I don't do tricks, I write the book for everyone to follow. Tricks are for pets... and cartoons :).
First you claim to buy into buzz-word tech like M-Disc with 0 proven benefits (and have to pay a hefty premium for it at every step). To be honest I don't believe you ever saw an M-Disc in person, you even spell it wrong. Then you tentatively admit you have no idea how to properly use read/write media (magnetic/flash) to back up data. Then you try to find a way to explain how you recover lost data from an infected backup by... BREAKING THE DISK TO DESTROY THE MALWARE. You lose your main data. You try to recover it from the backup on the expensive wonder-disk from the teleshopping channel. You discover the disk is full of malware. You break the disk to kill the malware. Now you have no main data. You also have no backup. Data is gone forever. You try to sound cool. Your scenarios don't make sense and aren't even funny.
Now you've been called a troll by almost everybody around here but I honestly don't agree with them. Throwing paper airplanes doesn't make you a pilot. Running in the back yard doesn't make you Usain Bolt. At least my jokes are funny. There was a time when trolling was funny and creative. Now the internet is full of people like you: no creativity, no ingenuity, no spontaneity, no sense of humor, just endless repetition of material that was bad from the get go and only gets worse the more you repeat it. Ugh...
"This is about watching UHD BR movies on PC." --------------------------------------------------------------- That's Cool.... Got any Non-DRM Nightmare gadgets that I can watch UHD BR movies on PC when I'm not burning backups?
i rather buy an -box and enjoy a few games in addition.
PC makers shoot themself in the foot with such stuff. it´s not as if PC sales roar.
the day aacs 2 is cracked (and it will be) many people will say "i am not buying that crap i download rips". and hollywood will sell no UHD blu rays at all to them.
The whole concept of using SGX for hiding things from the user is flawed. That tech is useful if the user wants to hide some data from unauthorized apps, not if apps want to hide data from the user. There will always be some way to "fake SGX" so that apps think it's on while it's not, if the user wanted. And if they ever came up with a scheme where that isn't possible, no one would ever buy it, it's just that simple. That is essentially making the user unable to fully control his own CPU, which will just never fly.
God damit. Why do they need to make it so difficult to get high bitrate 4K media. Are they that concerned about copying? The people who pirate videos will take whatever is available for 'free'. C**k blocking them from getting 4K rips is not going to make them buy a UHD player and UHD blurays.
The people who really want the high res+high bitrate stuff are the ones who you are loosing sales from (me included). My XBR X800D (used as a monitor) is basically stuck with low bitrate 4K streaming unless I want to pay for a XboneS or get a standalone player... sigh.
And even if I did get a standalone player I wouldn't be able to use the 7.1 setup at my PC because I'm using a cobbled together setup with class D amps stuck under my desk instead of a HT Receiver.
In case you haven't noticed, the only business MPAA has is controlling distribution. If they control distribution, they control pricing. Everything else is just gravy.
Been there, done that. Throw in the towel and put a cheap used pre/pro with analog bypass between your PC and your amps. Then plug in the HDMI 1.4 audio only output from a UHD bluray player into your Pre/Pro. Marantz AV series, Onyo/Integra, Yamaha CX, etc.
Cyberlink software is far and away the worst software on the windows platform. I've had to use their BD software on my media centre as there's no alternative that's not crazy money and it's an agony to use 90% of the time. Constant updates needed. The second they release the next version, they're going to plaster your screen with adverts for it. It's a shame MS didn't integrate BD playback in windows 10 as it pretty much killed the media center PC for a home cinema. I'm replacing mine with a sony bluray player.
I only installed PowerDVD to use their BluRay decoder. I never use the software itself. In the settings, you can select whether you want it to check for product updates. I use it in my main rig and my HTPC. I have a stand alone BluRay player (Panasonic) in the living room as well. I don't use optical discs too much anymore. However, I do like to playback BluRay images and you need the decoder to do that. It would have been nice for Windows to have that baked in. You thought that requirements for BRE were ridiculous and then along comes this.
What's the point? It has no software to playback UHD-BD, no such software exists yet and when it does it's so cumbersome that even brand new systems wouldn't really be able to playback the discs. It's more practical to go the illegal way, buy a stand alone Ultra HD Blu-ray player, a HDCP2.2 stripper and a 4K-UHD capture card if you want to playback the movies from your PC. At least that solution work. You might want to rip the audio from a plain ol' BD though. Sad it's the only solution too.
So I can spend $300 now, alongside $400+ for a Z270 Motherboard and Kaby Lake, which would only let me watch on one computer...or I can buy a $60 BDXL drive and wait for the encryption to be cracked so I can rip the videos and stream the content to an HTPC with an HDR-capable GPU at full bitrate or to any mobile device in a much smaller package.
Could someone remind me when we decided that buying something didn't mean you actually owned it anymore?
But that would be illegal, and as frustrates as many of us are, we actually want to do things legally AND support the content creators. We don't mind spending a little money, we just want a product that they don't provide yet.
"But that would be illegal, we just want a product that they don't provide yet." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In a rigged game where "THEY" are the only ones making money, THEY will NEVER provide the product you want!
I want MY DRM on ALL THEIR stuff to see what THEY are pirating from ME!
I used to pirate, but I don't anymore because I would really rather buy things that I want. Additionally, these movies are likely 50+ GB for the full MKV rip, and at that rate I'm pretty sure that, without Gigabit internet (which I don't have), it's actually faster to rip movies than download them.
I really do want to watch my movies legitimately, but I also want to watch them on the platform I want to, and in being so paranoid about pirates, they actively harm legitimate users which want to use the product that THEY BOUGHT the way they want to. Movies aren't at the "Steam" point where it's cheaper to buy a license to use the product than to buy the product itself, because most digital copies cost the same as the physical copy.
Oh, you're paying for it, make no mistake. Every time you buy something HDCP enabled, a CPU or an OS with DRM enforcement built it, you're footing the bill for something no one outside of Hollywood needs.
Ignoring the ridiculous DRM and HDCP nightmare that completely killed Blu-ray on PC, Magnetic storage is way cheaper, higher-performance and re-writeable. Take something economical with a low cost/GB like a 25 pack spindle of 50GB BD-R. You'll end up being able to burn around 1TB of data across all 25 discs but the discs alone cost 50% more than a 1TB USB hard drive.
I'll be waiting for Redfox Nee Slysoft to update AnyDVD for UHD-BD. Once that happens and I can playback using software of my choice (nobody should have PowerDVD inflicted upon them) I'll start investing in hardware and discs as I have with BD.
@Anton Shilov, nice clear write up! This warrants a wait-and-see attitude. The industry really doesn't want this, it seems.
...it will not be possible to use standalone GPUs for Ultra HD Blu-ray playback despite all their advanced media decoding capabilities.
With so many buts, ifs, and maybes 4k UHD disk playback on PC will be a mess, and also a hard/software upgrade paradise for the industry players. They can sell this, and then blame each other if your hardware/software/hardware combo isn't working: "no, sorry that specific Intel 200-series from 2017 won't work, you need the 2018 model with a different BIOS, which, while it can be released for this model won't be..."
In addition Pioneer believes it can charge $114 extra for unspecified "enhancements" on the drive?
..BDR-S11J-X has further enhancements to improve playback quality of inserted audio CDs. Pioneer does not reveal too many details other than saying about finely tuned internal components (possibly to minimize vibration) as well as a feature called the “playback quality check.”
Just rip the CD with EAC and pocket the $114 difference. With pricing at $200-300, might as well get a UHD Bluray player. The supposed PowerDirector17 software is also likely to be a couple of hundred. Well, come to think of it, there's not much native 4k disc material out there, so might as well wait until 8k comes on stream, and 4k is on sales.
Finally a new BD-R BDXL burner. I still back up lots of media creation files to BD-R DL (and perhaps in future to BDXL, if the price of discs drops). There is nothing else there that has the same cost/data ratio for off-line storage. No, HDs don't do it. No, USB-sticks don't do it. Perhaps in the future 1TB SSD drives or something similar, but we are not there yet.
Dear Hollywood morons, Please step back and look at what you are doing.
You are spending billions of dollars on DRM, and every time pirates figure out ways around it. Heck, now they just play discs back on TVs and capture it with a high-end camera, and no amount of DRM is about to stop that from happening.
Meanwhile, people like myself have a problem. All we want to do is have a digital library that we can play back on any device at any time. Sure, apps like Netflix and Hulu are broadly available... but their quality is 'less than desirable' to begin with, and ISPs are at war with them and constantly making matters worse. I have very nice computers hooked up to 4K TVs (looking at HDR tvs in the next year or so now that Win10 supports it), and very nice laptops and tablets with amazing displays on them. And yes, I could hook up a standard blu-ray player on my TVs, put in a disc, and watch content at full quality... problem is; this isn't the 1990s any more! I don't want to worry about if the kids scuffed up a disc, or someone put the disc in the wrong case, or mess with constantly trying to alphabetize my collection, or standing in front of the shelf akwardly trying to read sideways text in weird fonts, or switching inputs between my PC or some antiquated video player for different kinds of content. I want to come home, plant my butt on the couch, find what I was watching easily, hit play, and have a full-quality experience.
Seems to me, we could meet in the middle. You guys don't want to waste money on useless DRM, and I dont want to keep buying physical media. How about you take your nice beautiful content, package it in a MKV, and sell it to me for the same $15-30 a disc costs? I get the product I want, you get the price you want, and both of us can spend a lot less time faffing about with the DRM in the middle.
And to make them "happy" each download is a unique re-encode of the audio/video stream which contains a unique identifier to the original purchaser. So, if the content is "shared" they can go back and prosecute the violator.
Ugh, I wish this was straight forward. What a mess. Basically only some low end super new PCs can support it, and then only with a ton of screwy software running.
I think I'll end up just sticking an Xbox One by my PC...
Just as it was with Bluray, I have absolutely no interest in this or in UHD until the DRM is cracked and the content can be played on MPC-HC. And at that point, just like with Blurays, I'll start buying the discs.
Sadly, it will be cheaper and will save one many headaches in the long run to add an XBox One with HDMI passthrough to your PC monitor, than it will be to invest in all the new hardware, software, and configuration headaches required to get this draconian DRM working on any PC.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
64 Comments
Back to Article
bug77 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Who the hell cares? DRM killed optical storage for home use, manufacturers can shove their units where the Sun don't shine.Ok, DRM and flash drives.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
This pretty much says it all. Who even uses optical discs for anything? I wasn't aware there was even a market that'd make it worth the effort to develop technologies for such a paleolithic storage medium.willis936 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Because no one wants to use 100 GB of hard drive space for a movie.BrokenCrayons - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Not many people bother storing movies locally unless they're providing those movies as a streaming service. There are a few outliers, but those people are doing things in a niche manner. Movies themselves are a waning form of passive entertainment with little future left. There are some older folks that are hanigng onto that and television, but in general terms video, even streamed, is in the early stages of its death.chaos215bar2 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Uh, right. I'm sure video entertainment is on its way to a quick demise, right after books.More seriously, what (legal) software is even available to play Blu-Rays on a PC? I fully expect to see a UHD BD decrypter before long (if one doesn't already exist), but my impression was that Blu-Ray was such a mess that few if any legal programs properly support playback.
Moizy - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Cyberlink's PowerDVD suite (mentioned in the article) has supported Blu-ray playback with Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD audio for years now, and so have their competitors (WinDVD? I can't remember their names, but similar products to PowerDVD. I think ArcSoft makes one).fanofanand - Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - link
Funny you should say that, there was an article just yesterday about the demise of Hollywood. In the last 10 years their profits have been reduced by roughly 80%. Sony just took a 1 BILLION $ write-down on their movie productions. Several production companies just got sold to the Chinese. So yeah, the movie/video entertainment industry IS dying. How many bookstores are near your house? We have one in a city of 3 million people, and it's in the hippy district where die-hards still spin vinyl. The entertainment industry is following the music and book industry right down the toilet.dstarr3 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
I've got a NAS in the basement for movies. But I'm not terribly concerned about absolute pixel-perfect quality, so I'm alright with h.264 compression. Biggest movie I have is maybe 10GB. Vast majority are below half that. Whatever compression artifacts there are, I'm not going to be able to see from across the living room. My 2TB drive has been enough storage space for a few years now, and is only now just beginning to approach full. Upgrade to a 4TB and I'll be fine for another several years. Really not unreasonable at all.Samus - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Long live HDDVD.Alexvrb - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
If HD DVD had won the format wars we probably wouldn't be looking at such a convoluted DRM system for "UHD DVD". With that being said, if you're a videophile who cares about UHD BD, you're already watching them on a UHD BD player (standalone unit or XB1S). I doubt there's going to be much demand for UHD BD on PCs.Gich - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
I was waiting for this... but not like this...Nevermind... I'll just get an Xbox One S.
Alexvrb - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Agreed. I was considering getting a UHD BD drive for my next PC build just to have - not anymore. I mean heck even if I carefully pick components that are all compliant, the price of the drive alone is enough to make me balk.chrcoluk - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
I have a dvd burner in my main rig, the only use its got is a few dvd's I purchased of some content thats in dvd format only, and that is it, probably used it 2 or 3 times ot play such content in the past 2 years. I definitely never burn anything anymore. My laptop also has one integrated. If my dvd burner died I wouldnt replace it as I have the laptop, not to mention my ps3, ps4 and xbox260 zll have optical playback devices, however if I really had to get a new optical unit I would probably just buy a cheap external usb unit for situational use.Now days usb sticks have took over the role for things like OS installation and portable storage, and if I find I run out of hdd space to store stuff, I tend to just upgrade my hdd space.
Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
"at the time of writing there are no software packages that support playback of Ultra HD Blu-ray discs"and here is why >
to actually playback an Ultra HD Blu-ray disc, users will need:
A PC that supports AACS 2.0 and Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX)
An appropriate optical disk drive,
Software that handles UHD BD playback,
Windows 10,
A GPU that has an HDMI 2.0a output with HDCP 2.2 (and AACS2 supported by its driver, which eliminates current-gen standalone GPUs) and,
A 4K TV/display that has an HDMI 2.0a input with HDCP 2.2.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OR, I can Burn NON-DRM 4K Videos to a NON DRM Nightmare RIGHT NOW and do it in Windows XP/7/8 or 10!
Great Job Guys....
I'd rather buy a mini Blu-Ray Burner as a floppy disk replacement
I could store an Acronis bootable backup of every OS listed above with room to spare for mandatory software in a single triple layer disk and never worry about malware encrypting my Read Only backups but Oooooh, thats right, they cancelled all their mini-disk production
B.T.W.
BD-RE is equivalent to DVD+R for anyone interested in making backups to a bootable rewritable disk and work fine even in Windows XP
Gothmoth - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
i don´t get what you are saying.. sorry.Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
"i don´t get what you are saying"------------------------------------------
Just saying I'd rather have a high density 80cm "mini disk" reader/writer
There are still valid reasons for Read Only Media without DRM hoops to jump through for disks I will never buy
I'd rather put critical backups on an Optical Disk rated to last 1000 years like an M-Disk or rewritable boot disk instead of copying them to an SSD or hard drive that is about to get hit by a malware attack
....and who the He^^ puts critical backups in the Clouds anyway?
close - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Ah... M-Disc, the media that's barely been on the market for ~6-7 years, claims to last 1000 years but everything that would validate the claim is a trade secret so best you can do is put your data on one and wait.Meanwhile plenty of independent testing showed that under not so ordinary conditions (probably unnaturally hot/humid conditions) they are no more resilient than DVDs. Also only a handful of units can burn M-Disc and 4.7GB blanks are more expensive (by a good margin) than 25GB BD-R blanks. But they last 1 (one) gazillion years, scout's honor.
What if the malware gets written on the M-Disc, what do you do then? That's 1000 years of malware that you can't get rid of.
Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
"What if the malware gets written on the M-Disc, what do you do then? That's 1000 years of malware that you can't get rid of."--------------------------------------------
Well, I've broken hundreds of malware infected CD's and DVD's in my lifetime, let's see if I can break a malware infected Blu-Ray disk
Yup, not a problem!
Antiviruses are the first thing disabled by malware in your operating system
You might want to try storing clean antivirus rescue disks on...........Read Only DVD!
I recheck older optical disks every few years for malware when the antivirus signatures had a chance to catch up, and break the bad optical disks after saving the crap I want to keep on a freshly wiped hard drive
I use a READ ONLY operating system to save the NON-infected data and rescan the hard drive after a reboot to clean temporary infections from the READ ONLY operating system
THEN, I burn a new disk without the malware being saved for 1000 years
A Read Only installation of Windows XP is the OS I use when cleaning infected optical disks.....
Driveshield works great for making it READ ONLY!
What do YOU use, and how do YOU prevent rootkits that disable your antivirus first withoout your knowledge and that you will never find unless you scan your boot drive with a READ ONLY rescue disk?
Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Please don't tell me you use Windows 10....Windows 10 IS the malware!
Microsoft is not allowed to use DRM on MY systems unless I can force them to use MY DRM on their systems!
Forcing Weaponized spyware and malware onto all modern Windows systems and calling it DRM is the problem, not the solution
If security experts are not allowed to remove DRM malware that opens backdoors for every hacker on the planet, then how can you ever secure your system?
They have made it a crime for you to secure your own system and close the backdoors yet they tell you that YOU cannot do the same thing to THEM to prevent the theft of YOUR data
When it becomes a crime to stop the criminals, something is VERY wrong
Plus, you get to pay for your own enslavement!
On topic and to the point....
close - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
No, antiviruses are the first thing disabled by malware on YOUR operating system (you're on XP SP2, right?). I haven't had malware on any of my systems in well over 15 years. Unless it's of the NSA variety :).And if you can just break the 1000 year media don't you... lose data? You know you don't break just the malware bits don't you? What do you do when you discover your 1 year old data is malware ridden, go back in time before the infection and rewrite it on a disk? Being stuck with malware for 1000 years or having to personally kill your data, that can keep you up at night.
Come on, if you can't protect your data on a backup HDD you won't on an M-Disc either. You'll lose data just the same. Also you'll lose money since you pay for a 4.7GB M-Disc 50% more than on a 25GB BD-R (~60-80c/GB judging by today's market prices).
I once was like you. I used to tell the proctologist that he can't finger my butthole unless I can finger his. I called it enslavement, I called him a criminal, all it got me was a stint in the loony bin with a guy who was dressing as a toy elk or something... Oh wait... ;)
Bullwinkle J Moose - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
"if you can just break the 1000 year media don't you... lose data?"----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I lose malware!
Any data I want to keep is malware-free and burned to a new disk before the old one is broken
I don't use M-Disks for general crap that might contain malware
I break the cheap stuff, and I have never used a 4.7GB M-disks
I'm not worried about my antivirus being disable on a Read Only Operating System either
If I let it connect to the Internet or pick one that takes over the firewall, then I might worry, but I'm not finding any malware that can wreck my XP install
The only malware I've had doing damage in the past year was on a fully updated, fresh install of Windows 8.1 even though I only research and look for malware with XP, not 8.1
So those man in the middle attacks and network screengrabs in 8.1 must have been of the NSA variety huh?
close - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
So you break the disk, kill the malware, and keep the data? Oh wait, that was the backup of your 1-2-5-7 year old data that you just discovered has malware and nothing can clean it. Too bad for your data. Now it's gone along with the malware and you have no other backup. And since you had that malware 1-2-5-7 years ago it's safe to assume everything on your computer and every backup since then is infected. You not only lost all your backups but all the current data in your computer. Damn man, you're a real menace :).If you ever want to learn how to properly back up data without using media designed for gullible, uneducated consumers willing to spend more without an actual benefit let me know. I'll teach you some tricks that will blow your... um... mind.
Dunno what you mean about screengrabs in 8.1. Do you have a dude behind you taking pics of the stuff on your screen or what?
Bullwinkle J Moose - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
Not even CLOSEContinually trying to find problems where none exist is the hallmark of your Trolling expertise
But at least your jokes are funny!
YOU are going to teach ME tricks?
Bwaaahahahahhahahhahah
close - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
I don't do tricks, I write the book for everyone to follow. Tricks are for pets... and cartoons :).First you claim to buy into buzz-word tech like M-Disc with 0 proven benefits (and have to pay a hefty premium for it at every step). To be honest I don't believe you ever saw an M-Disc in person, you even spell it wrong. Then you tentatively admit you have no idea how to properly use read/write media (magnetic/flash) to back up data. Then you try to find a way to explain how you recover lost data from an infected backup by... BREAKING THE DISK TO DESTROY THE MALWARE.
You lose your main data. You try to recover it from the backup on the expensive wonder-disk from the teleshopping channel. You discover the disk is full of malware. You break the disk to kill the malware. Now you have no main data. You also have no backup. Data is gone forever. You try to sound cool. Your scenarios don't make sense and aren't even funny.
Now you've been called a troll by almost everybody around here but I honestly don't agree with them. Throwing paper airplanes doesn't make you a pilot. Running in the back yard doesn't make you Usain Bolt. At least my jokes are funny.
There was a time when trolling was funny and creative. Now the internet is full of people like you: no creativity, no ingenuity, no spontaneity, no sense of humor, just endless repetition of material that was bad from the get go and only gets worse the more you repeat it. Ugh...
Bullwinkle J Moose - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
OMG OMG OMGI spellt it rong
and he called me a TROLL !
Where-O-where are the censors when you really need them?
Gich - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
This is about watching UHD BR movies on PC.Not about personal videos or backups.
Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
"This is about watching UHD BR movies on PC."---------------------------------------------------------------
That's Cool....
Got any Non-DRM Nightmare gadgets that I can watch UHD BR movies on PC when I'm not burning backups?
Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
sorry....BD-RE is equivalent to DVD+RW as they are both rewritable data disks
DVD+R is not rewritable
DVD-R is for video recorders / not data disk and is usually non-bootable in computers except for the few rare boot schemes that work with that format
It would be nice to carry 4 or 5 bootable Acronis drive backups in a shirt pocket though
Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
and Please don't confuse rewritable disks with READ ONLY data!If I burn and close a rewritable optical disk, it is READ ONLY until I erase the entire disk and burn a new one
B&H photo still sells the 1.4GB sony DVD+RW mini disks
They make Great recovery boot disks
Gothmoth - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
who the hell will buy such a drive for 300$ ???i rather buy an -box and enjoy a few games in addition.
PC makers shoot themself in the foot with such stuff.
it´s not as if PC sales roar.
the day aacs 2 is cracked (and it will be) many people will say "i am not buying that crap i download rips". and hollywood will sell no UHD blu rays at all to them.
Visual - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
The whole concept of using SGX for hiding things from the user is flawed. That tech is useful if the user wants to hide some data from unauthorized apps, not if apps want to hide data from the user. There will always be some way to "fake SGX" so that apps think it's on while it's not, if the user wanted. And if they ever came up with a scheme where that isn't possible, no one would ever buy it, it's just that simple. That is essentially making the user unable to fully control his own CPU, which will just never fly.Quad5Ny - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
God damit. Why do they need to make it so difficult to get high bitrate 4K media. Are they that concerned about copying? The people who pirate videos will take whatever is available for 'free'. C**k blocking them from getting 4K rips is not going to make them buy a UHD player and UHD blurays.The people who really want the high res+high bitrate stuff are the ones who you are loosing sales from (me included). My XBR X800D (used as a monitor) is basically stuck with low bitrate 4K streaming unless I want to pay for a XboneS or get a standalone player... sigh.
And even if I did get a standalone player I wouldn't be able to use the 7.1 setup at my PC because I'm using a cobbled together setup with class D amps stuck under my desk instead of a HT Receiver.
Grrrrr
bug77 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
In case you haven't noticed, the only business MPAA has is controlling distribution. If they control distribution, they control pricing. Everything else is just gravy.maglito - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Been there, done that. Throw in the towel and put a cheap used pre/pro with analog bypass between your PC and your amps. Then plug in the HDMI 1.4 audio only output from a UHD bluray player into your Pre/Pro. Marantz AV series, Onyo/Integra, Yamaha CX, etc.thethirdman - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Cyberlink software is far and away the worst software on the windows platform. I've had to use their BD software on my media centre as there's no alternative that's not crazy money and it's an agony to use 90% of the time. Constant updates needed. The second they release the next version, they're going to plaster your screen with adverts for it. It's a shame MS didn't integrate BD playback in windows 10 as it pretty much killed the media center PC for a home cinema. I'm replacing mine with a sony bluray player.bigboxes - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
I only installed PowerDVD to use their BluRay decoder. I never use the software itself. In the settings, you can select whether you want it to check for product updates. I use it in my main rig and my HTPC. I have a stand alone BluRay player (Panasonic) in the living room as well. I don't use optical discs too much anymore. However, I do like to playback BluRay images and you need the decoder to do that. It would have been nice for Windows to have that baked in. You thought that requirements for BRE were ridiculous and then along comes this.Penti - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
What's the point? It has no software to playback UHD-BD, no such software exists yet and when it does it's so cumbersome that even brand new systems wouldn't really be able to playback the discs. It's more practical to go the illegal way, buy a stand alone Ultra HD Blu-ray player, a HDCP2.2 stripper and a 4K-UHD capture card if you want to playback the movies from your PC. At least that solution work. You might want to rip the audio from a plain ol' BD though. Sad it's the only solution too.Penti - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
So it seems software will ship with the Pioneer's, so I don't really know why they write that PowerDVD 14 is included.See Cyberlink press release from 25th of January.
Still basically useless, not many Z270 boards has a HDMI 2.0 LSPCon (with HDCP 2.2).
Inteli - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
So I can spend $300 now, alongside $400+ for a Z270 Motherboard and Kaby Lake, which would only let me watch on one computer...or I can buy a $60 BDXL drive and wait for the encryption to be cracked so I can rip the videos and stream the content to an HTPC with an HDR-capable GPU at full bitrate or to any mobile device in a much smaller package.Could someone remind me when we decided that buying something didn't mean you actually owned it anymore?
Michael Bay - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Do not spend anything and just download the rips.CaedenV - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
But that would be illegal, and as frustrates as many of us are, we actually want to do things legally AND support the content creators. We don't mind spending a little money, we just want a product that they don't provide yet.Bullwinkle J Moose - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
"But that would be illegal, we just want a product that they don't provide yet."------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a rigged game where "THEY" are the only ones making money, THEY will NEVER provide the product you want!
I want MY DRM on ALL THEIR stuff to see what THEY are pirating from ME!
Do you think THEY will allow THAT?
No?
Then why would you allow them to do that to YOU?
Lolimaster - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
And who cares?They should let you download the movie in mkv format from a digital store. If they don't, just pirate the thing.
Inteli - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
I used to pirate, but I don't anymore because I would really rather buy things that I want. Additionally, these movies are likely 50+ GB for the full MKV rip, and at that rate I'm pretty sure that, without Gigabit internet (which I don't have), it's actually faster to rip movies than download them.I really do want to watch my movies legitimately, but I also want to watch them on the platform I want to, and in being so paranoid about pirates, they actively harm legitimate users which want to use the product that THEY BOUGHT the way they want to. Movies aren't at the "Steam" point where it's cheaper to buy a license to use the product than to buy the product itself, because most digital copies cost the same as the physical copy.
r3loaded - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Haha. No.Get bent Hollywood.
Anato - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Its their content and they can do what ever they want with it. Just don't expect me to pay for it!I pay when I get my content DRM-free, like music industry is doing.
bug77 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Oh, you're paying for it, make no mistake. Every time you buy something HDCP enabled, a CPU or an OS with DRM enforcement built it, you're footing the bill for something no one outside of Hollywood needs.Chrispy_ - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
LOL, optical media - how quaint.Ignoring the ridiculous DRM and HDCP nightmare that completely killed Blu-ray on PC, Magnetic storage is way cheaper, higher-performance and re-writeable. Take something economical with a low cost/GB like a 25 pack spindle of 50GB BD-R. You'll end up being able to burn around 1TB of data across all 25 discs but the discs alone cost 50% more than a 1TB USB hard drive.
edzieba - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
I'll be waiting for Redfox Nee Slysoft to update AnyDVD for UHD-BD. Once that happens and I can playback using software of my choice (nobody should have PowerDVD inflicted upon them) I'll start investing in hardware and discs as I have with BD.Gadgety - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
@Anton Shilov, nice clear write up! This warrants a wait-and-see attitude. The industry really doesn't want this, it seems.With so many buts, ifs, and maybes 4k UHD disk playback on PC will be a mess, and also a hard/software upgrade paradise for the industry players. They can sell this, and then blame each other if your hardware/software/hardware combo isn't working: "no, sorry that specific Intel 200-series from 2017 won't work, you need the 2018 model with a different BIOS, which, while it can be released for this model won't be..."
In addition Pioneer believes it can charge $114 extra for unspecified "enhancements" on the drive? Just rip the CD with EAC and pocket the $114 difference. With pricing at $200-300, might as well get a UHD Bluray player. The supposed PowerDirector17 software is also likely to be a couple of hundred. Well, come to think of it, there's not much native 4k disc material out there, so might as well wait until 8k comes on stream, and 4k is on sales.
takeshi7 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
I just want Sony to bring back MiniDiscs. They're still the coolest optical media ever invented.halcyon - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Finally a new BD-R BDXL burner. I still back up lots of media creation files to BD-R DL (and perhaps in future to BDXL, if the price of discs drops). There is nothing else there that has the same cost/data ratio for off-line storage. No, HDs don't do it. No, USB-sticks don't do it. Perhaps in the future 1TB SSD drives or something similar, but we are not there yet.CaedenV - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Dear Hollywood morons,Please step back and look at what you are doing.
You are spending billions of dollars on DRM, and every time pirates figure out ways around it. Heck, now they just play discs back on TVs and capture it with a high-end camera, and no amount of DRM is about to stop that from happening.
Meanwhile, people like myself have a problem. All we want to do is have a digital library that we can play back on any device at any time. Sure, apps like Netflix and Hulu are broadly available... but their quality is 'less than desirable' to begin with, and ISPs are at war with them and constantly making matters worse. I have very nice computers hooked up to 4K TVs (looking at HDR tvs in the next year or so now that Win10 supports it), and very nice laptops and tablets with amazing displays on them. And yes, I could hook up a standard blu-ray player on my TVs, put in a disc, and watch content at full quality... problem is; this isn't the 1990s any more! I don't want to worry about if the kids scuffed up a disc, or someone put the disc in the wrong case, or mess with constantly trying to alphabetize my collection, or standing in front of the shelf akwardly trying to read sideways text in weird fonts, or switching inputs between my PC or some antiquated video player for different kinds of content. I want to come home, plant my butt on the couch, find what I was watching easily, hit play, and have a full-quality experience.
Seems to me, we could meet in the middle. You guys don't want to waste money on useless DRM, and I dont want to keep buying physical media. How about you take your nice beautiful content, package it in a MKV, and sell it to me for the same $15-30 a disc costs? I get the product I want, you get the price you want, and both of us can spend a lot less time faffing about with the DRM in the middle.
It could be the start of something beautiful!
Sincerely,
A Movie and TV fan
maglito - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
And to make them "happy" each download is a unique re-encode of the audio/video stream which contains a unique identifier to the original purchaser. So, if the content is "shared" they can go back and prosecute the violator.I would be fine with such a solution.
zodiacfml - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
Unbelievable pain. This is unreasonable for paying users.Wolfpup - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
Ugh, I wish this was straight forward. What a mess. Basically only some low end super new PCs can support it, and then only with a ton of screwy software running.I think I'll end up just sticking an Xbox One by my PC...
lolipopman - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
About time.Magichands8 - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
Just as it was with Bluray, I have absolutely no interest in this or in UHD until the DRM is cracked and the content can be played on MPC-HC. And at that point, just like with Blurays, I'll start buying the discs.Golgatha777 - Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - link
Sadly, it will be cheaper and will save one many headaches in the long run to add an XBox One with HDMI passthrough to your PC monitor, than it will be to invest in all the new hardware, software, and configuration headaches required to get this draconian DRM working on any PC.fanofanand - Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - link
This is insanity. It really does seem like they have a vested interest in ensuring UHD Blu-Ray doesn't take off.helvete - Monday, February 20, 2017 - link
What's the point?Shouldn't near-death technology optical drive cost more likely around $30 instead of $300. Who wants to meddle with the disks anyway?